Named one of Australia’s 100 most influential people, Rev Bill Crews has recently co-written a memoir of his life, ‘Twelve Rules For Living A Better Life’. He speaks with DAVID ADAMS about two pivotal moments in his life, who Jesus is to him, and his relationship with the Dalai Lama…
Named one of Australia’s 100 most influential people, Rev Bill Crews is known for his work among – and advocacy for – the marginalised, disenfranchised and abandoned, both in his home town of Sydney and around the world. Having recently co-written a memoir of his life with Roger Joyce, 12 Rules for Living a Better Life, the radio show host and founder of Sydney’s famous Loaves & Fishes Restaurant, now 76, talks about two pivotal moments in his life, who Jesus is to him, and his relationship with the Dalai Lama…
Congratulations on the book. Why did you decide to write it now?
“People have been on at me to write a book for a long time and I didn’t think mine was that remarkable, you know. It’s basically that I’ve been telling people for a long time that all these secrets are just stories – why don’t I tell mine? So it started there…It was also because I had Roger Joyce with me…On my own I don’t think I would have done it because there’s a lot of pain in it.”
Rev Bill Crews. PICTURE: Supplied.
In the book, you speak of two pivotal moments in your life – the first is in the 1970s when you started volunteering at the Wayside Chapel in Sydney’s King’s Cross and you hear the call of the “Voice” telling you to leave your job and to start working there. You mention the “Voice” several times in the book – is the “Voice” God?
“The voice is what it is. How can I put it? It’s a collection of all that is which you could say is God as well but it’s inside and outside and timeless and immediate at the same time…I often worry when we use words like God that we limit what it is – I think the Jewish people have the right idea of never naming the Word of God, because it’s just too awesome. It came from that…”
IN SHORT – REV BILL CREWS
Favourite book of the Bible?…”I’ve got favourite bits – my favourite bit of all is John, chapter 1…That passage in John sums up a whole lot.”
A person you’d like to meet?…”Pope Francis…I started washing people’s feet…and I found washing the feet of the homeless, really, really moving and he does that.”
A place that’s special to you?…”There is so many. Calais was so special. King’s Cross….I tend to love places where things happened.”
It was clearly compelling because that was quite a life change for you.
“Huge. But welcomed. When you’re in that transforming stage you don’t realise how remarkable it is. I’m still learning things from that time; that all these things that I thought I couldn’t do, I could actually do.”
The second pivotal moment that you mention is in 2015 when you visited the Jungle Camp in Calais?
“I was in Calais with the refugees at a place called The Jungle..There ere 15,000 refugees from all over the Middle East and everywhere. And I saw a sign on one of the huts which said ‘NA [Narcotics Anonymous] meeting today’ and I thought I’ll go to that…And the room was made of cardboard and canvas and plastic and there was just a carpet on the snow and sitting on the carpet were 20 people. And they were women, all refugees..And in the NA tradition they all tell their stories and each one was telling their story in their own language and it was all being translated into French which meant I didn’t understand anything….But you don’t have to understand the language, you could see it on their faces. And it got to me and I thought ‘What am I going to say?’ So I said, ‘I’m Bill from Australia’…and then it all poured out, I said ‘I’m from Australia and I’ve had two [failed] marriages and it’s been awful and my kids are separated’ – all of that sort of stuff and I just poured it all out. And they all stood up and they all hugged me and it was like they gave me my life back. And these are people who have got nothing – it’s a Jesus story on steroids…And I thought how can I thank them? So I went back to England and I threw out all of my clothes and went and bought a whole lot of black and I just wear black because they changed my life…Here’s was I, 70-odd, and it was as big as the first experience I had {at the Wayside Chapel].”
It’s not out of character for you to take action like that. Your life has been characterised by action when confronted with injustices and I think of the Korean memorial outside your church, a situation when you saw injustice [a refusal from the local council to put up a memorial to the Korean ‘comfort women’ – forced by the Japanese into sexual slavery during World War II] and you responded in a very dramatic way [by erecting your own statue outside the Ashfield Uniting Church]. In fact in the book, you say that phrase ‘Do who you are’. What do you mean by that?
“People come to me all the time and they say ‘Oh, I want to do just what you’ve done and I want to set this up and God’s telling me to do this stuff’. And they’ve got all the right attitudes but they don’t do it. And it’s actually doing it. You’ve got the attitudes – so what? That’s not going to change the world; that’s not going to change anybody.”
So is it fair to say that belief alone is not enough; it’s got to be accompanied by action?
“Well true belief is action. True faith is action. And I learned long ago that if I learn something I have to share it, otherwise it just sits inside me like a heap of dough.”
Obviously your heart for the marginalised, you heart for the outsider, that’s been what’s shaped so much of your ministry work. How much do you think your own experience as a child, as a young man, led you into that?
“A lot. Because it was a struggle for me to be who I was as a child. There’s all these forces all the time, telling you to do this or to do that or be the other or don’t be the way you are. And I think that goes through everything…There’s always somebody wanting to take your freedom away and you’ve got to stand up to that all the time.”
Over the years – and you mention it in the book – you’ve had your share of run-ins with the Uniting Church hierarchy (as your mentor Ted Noffs did with the Methodist Church). Yet you also say in the book that you love the church. If you could change one thing about the church, what would it be?
“Its addiction to power. It’s forever trying to hose down the energy inside it. And, probably the addiction to do the right thing, because often the right thing isn’t the just thing.”
Your spiritual journey over the years has had its ups and downs, its hard times and its good times. Throughout that, who has Jesus been to you?
“Well, it changes. I think. He s been the one who shines the light but encouraging me to light my own light. So many people I know want to rub out their souls and rub out their identity and put in a photograph of Jesus…I think Thomas Merton put it best where he said ‘The search for God is the search for the true self’. And I think that’s what we’re encouraged to do and not be plastic copies of Jesus…So many people I know think belief is everything and they sit back and they become smug in it. And I just find that difficult to deal with. At times I think people try to use Jesus as a threat rather than as a loving presence.”
Do you resonate with the fact that Jesus was an outsider; that He was someone who was – when He was walking on Earth – very much eschewed by those in power. Does that aspect of who Christ is resonate with you?
“Yes. I mean, His own family thought He was nuts…The power of the self that He’s got, that He was able to withstand all of that and move forward.”
One of the big relationships that you talk about in the book is the one that you have with the Dalai Lama – in fact, you’ve dedicated the book to him. Why do you think you feel such a strong bond given you’re a Christian minister, he’s a Buddhist leader?
“Well, he wrote the most beautiful forward for my book but it came [too late] and will go in the next edition…To me, he epitomises a lot about Jesus. A lot…To be able to survive when your people have been butchered is amazing. Amazing. And there’s a depth and a spirituality to him which is awesome, just awesome. When I first met him, I said how I couldn’t see him and Jesus not being friends… I can’t put it into words but I think I’m acutely aware of some of the loneliness he feels and the impotence he feels and how he is able to move on through that.”
Loneliness has been a challenge for you, too. Has that has been the greatest challenge for you in your spiritual journey?
“No. The greatest challenge is being true to yourself. Not living by quotes. Being really true to yourself and not trying to fit into stereotypes.”
You mention retirement in the book but say that even if you did retire, you’d still be doing what you’re doing anyway. What’s next for you?
“You have to be open. One of things I do is I say yes to everything and usually most of it falls away because most people want to do something but they don’t do it. But the stuff that gets left is fascinating. So I don’t know what’s going to happen tomorrow, if you get what I mean…I just listen to my soul.”
You’ve structured the book around 12 rules for living a better life and the chapters go through those. If you could give one piece of advice, what would it be? What’s the pinnacle of wisdom from Bill Crews?
“It changes a lot of times but there’s a line Khalil Gibran wrote – and he’s a Muslim – and he says ‘Trust in your dreams because in them is hidden the gate to eternity’. And I think that’s it.”
This interview has been edited for clarity and length.
