4th November, 2005

Gary Wilkerson, 47, is the son of renowned evangelist David Wilkerson (co-author of The Cross and the Switchblade, founder of Teen Challenge, pastor of New York's Times Square Church - the list goes on). In Australia to preach at a series of conferences with his father, Gary spoke with DAVID ADAMS...

What was it like growing up as the son of David Wilkerson?
“I get that question on occasion and I’m always delighted to answer it because I have good news. I’ve heard so many tragic stories about evangelists' kids kind of moving in the wrong direction but I’m thankful that my father, although quite busy and travelling around the world preaching to many, many people and writing books and leading Teen Challenge, when he was home, he really was present to his kids. I have a younger brother and two older sisters and all four of us are serving the Lord; all four of us in the ministry and all four of us are in love with our dad. So it was great.”

PASTORS TO THE PASTORS: Gary Wilkerson with his father David.   "I could see that my dad had given his life to something that mattered and was worthwhile. I don’t know in technical terms if God called me or I called God (but I said) ‘God I want to do this’." - Gary Wilkerson

It’s a bit of a family tradition that you’re in the ministry as such. I understand it goes back several generations?
“It does. My father and his father, my great-grandfather, my great-great-grandfather. All different kinds of personalities. One of my family members did a little family study...and (it found) some of them were like fire preachers - you know they stirred everybody up - and others were quiet and gifted teachers and others were administrators but all of them were in the ministry. I have a 22-year-old boy and a 16-year-old boy who both believe God’s called them into the ministry as well so I’m excited about that too.”

You received the call of God when you were only six years old?
“My dad asked me to come with him on a trip he was taking. He was preaching on the east coast of the States and I’ll never forget, I was standing backstage and he gave an altar call. At that time there was what they called the 'Jesus Movement' - the kids had long hair and were hippies on the streets smoking pot - and that’s who was coming to his meetings at the time. There were thousands of them and I guess about half the crowd came forward and I saw all these teenagers throwing their marijuana up on the stage and their cocaine, their heroin and their cigarettes and everything just to be free from that.

"I didn’t quite understand it all - I wasn’t quite mature enough to understand all that was going on - but I knew there was something that I wanted to give my life too. I could see that my dad had given his life to something that mattered and was worthwhile. I don’t know in technical terms if God called me or I called God (but I said) ‘God I want to do this’. At first it was ‘I want to be like my dad’ but mixed in with that was ‘I want to be a man who makes a difference in the world’. And then, when I was a teenager, I passionately wanted to continue with that process. It made more sense to me as I got a little bit older.”

You were then preaching at the age of 16, were a youth pastor at 19 and planted a church at the age of 23. What do you see as your mission now?
“Up until about three years ago, my life mission has been to be involved in church planting. I really believe that new, lively churches that love Jesus and (have) circles of influence in a city or in a suburb or in the countryside are the real hope for the future. I believe that God’s church is God’s greatest tool to reach people that are far from Him. So I’ve been involved in church planting. But about three years ago my dad asked me to come full-time with him, travelling and helping encourage pastors and leaders. It’s something I never thought I’d do or never asked God to let me do. A lot of people want to travel the world and preach to tens of thousands of people but I’ve always just wanted to be a pastor and that’s still my greatest love...I’ll meet a pastor today and I’ll get jealous - 'Oh, you’re so lucky being a pastor, I have to travel around preaching, you know’ - but I’m glad God’s kept that in my heart because hopefully it helps me identify with them and speak to some of the issues Christian leaders are facing.”

Your job involves travelling across the world to minister to people. Is there a particular country that God has really put on your heart of late?
“I would love to say some foreign, exotic place but really I love America, I really do. To me there’s very few places as needy. Even though it’s very churched...I personally believe that the potential that it has to send missionaries and to be an example to others is great. But outside of America, for me, it’s the English speaking nations: the European nations that once were on fire for God. I love England and Scotland and Ireland and Australia, although this is my first time here...I find that a lot of places we speak we need to use an interpreter - which is fine with me - but where I have difficulty is once the preaching is done and you’re sitting around a table. In Australia I can talk with the pastors - we can get a small group and cry and pray - whereas with an interpreter you lose a little bit of that.”

So the preaching is important but equally so is getting together with small groups of leaders afterwards?
“At every conference I go to I try to connect with at least two guys on more of a friendship level and I then try and connect with one or two guys more on a needs-based level, I guess you could say. In that I come across tough things as extreme as one guy saying his lust problem was so bad that on the first night of a conference he was with a prostitute just before he (arrived) - he’d been struggling with pornography and lust. What a privilege to hear his heart and pray for him and just encourage him and get somebody to stand with him and help him...God usually seems to give me a chance to talk to one or two guys on that kind of level. That is important to me because although I love teaching - and I believe that’s what God’s called me to do as far as gifting, to teach the word - teaching can become very academic and dry or it can be very pentecostal and lively but unless you have contact with people, to me it seems like you miss something. So I guess I’m saying scripture on the one hand and the reality of community on the other hand I feel builds for a better ministry.”

What’s one time you can recall from the past year when God has really amazed or surprised you?
“I suppose the right answer would seem like it would be when there’s great miracles or when thousands are saved or something like that but I think He surprises me more when He doesn’t do what I asked Him to do. I think a lot of Christians...kind of feel like God is there to answer our beck and call - whatever we want Him to do; He’s supposed to do what we ask of Him. I've found in my life God to be uncooperative at times and not at all doing what I want Him to do and I find myself throwing fits at times, getting angry and upset, asking why don’t I get what I want? So, yeah, my surprise is when God says 'No' and then I get surprised at how immature my reaction to His no is, how hurt I get, and then lastly I get really surprised at how delighted I am at the outcome of that. The final analysis is ‘Wow, He’s really smart’."

What do you think is the greatest challenge facing the church in the Western world at present?
“Apathy. Not even a spiritual apathy in the sense of ‘I don’t want to serve the Lord’ but an apathy towards that passion for Christ. I don’t think there’s an apathy in trying to work hard or build something or make something work but I think that when it comes to really trusting Jesus, for some reason we have just kind of subtly fallen into the belief that Christ alone is not sufficient; that we need Christ plus other things to help us or we’re not going to get it done; that God alone is not going to be enough to reach this culture. I’m in my forties but I’m finding guys younger than me are really trying to find some kind of method or program or strategy that will help them become the next Hillsong or something like that. God’s not always trying to build a Hillsong or a Times Square church, sometimes He wants the church to be 200 people that are really serving the community faithfully and reaching prisoners or homeless kids. God is very creative and has different callings on different lives.

"I think the temptation in our society - because in Western society we have such cultural icons with pop stars, rocks stars and movie stars - I think sometimes even preachers and Christian recording artists become stars and those of us who aren’t at a star level of ministry, so to speak, kind of feel hurt - ‘Oh, why aren’t I famous’ or ‘Why aren’t I building the biggest work’. So the agenda becomes trying to build something up to be something rather than ‘Here I am God, use me, I trust you whether you want me to be like John the Baptist and decrease or whether you want me to be a prophet who says unpopular things or whether you want me to be the pastor of the largest church in the nation - whatever you want, it’s not my call; it’s your's God.’”

With the world focus on terrorism, do you think that it’s providing more opportunities for Christians to speak with non-Christians about their faith?
“For me personally it has, particularly during the times when the crises are there. During the September 11 attack on the World Trade Centre, the church that we’re a part of in New York City was able to set up some tents right outside of where the World Trade Towers had fallen and policemen were coming in for prayer, people were walking by in total dismay asking what’s God doing? So I think there is an open door to speak to people (in those crises). Although - while I don’t mean to diminish that - I think it pales in comparison to building solid relationships with people who don’t know God; who really love them and live lives of Christ in front of them. Tragedies, I think, have a way of getting people to think about God for a little bit but once the tragedy is past, it’s kind of like they're relieved and 'God was a bit of comfort and that was helpful but do I really need to pay attention to Him for the rest of my life?'”

You and your father are currently speaking at a series of events around Australia and New Zealand. What prompted the visit and what message do you have for the Australian church?
“The conference we are doing here is called ‘Renewing your passion for Christ’ and it’s not like a how-to conference, it’s more how goes the man, so goes the ministry. The idea behind it is to challenge the heart, encourage the heart and penetrate some areas that will bring us into a greater walk with Jesus and as a result of that, the man and the woman will be empowered to be all that Christ intends them to be and therefore they can have a greater impact in their own ministry and in their own location...Sometimes that means repentance and sometimes that means giving up our own agendas and sometimes that means not giving up - it’s something different for everybody but the idea is that 'Whatever it takes God, here we are'.”

To find out more about David and Gary Wilkerson's ministry or their conference schedule, visit www.davidwilkerson.org