PICTURE: Courtesy of World Vision "September 11 was terrible - 3,000 people died - but unreported was that on that same day there were 20,000 deaths, mainly children, of preventable disease and malnutrition. And the next day, September 12, another 20,000. And the next day and everyday since. Which says that this war on terror, this security agenda, is all about us. Terror has been stalking all along, but it’s never actually affected us. (If) there is to be a true security agenda you have to have a war on poverty that addresses the war on terror. Otherwise desperate people will be recruited to be suicide bombers and martyrs on the promise that their families will still be provided for.”

2nd September, 2004

At 49-years-old, he’s one of Australia’s most respected, not to mention most quoted, Christians. A former mayor, a minister, an anti-gambling crusader and, since March this year, chief executive of World Vision Australia. Named Victorian of the Year for 2004, he’s also the brother of the Federal Treasurer. DAVID ADAMS speaks with TIM COSTELLO, recently returned from a trip to Sudan...

First up, can you describe a little bit of what you saw in Sudan?
“It’s really like flying from Melbourne to the red centre of Australia - an almost utterly barren sand-dune - and suddenly seeing a five by six kilometre camp with 70,000 people perched on a sand-dune. When you go down there, you discover it’s 45 degree heat during the day and hammering rain at night and here are people who are not only living in what can only be described as a ‘hell on earth’ all crammed together but worse they are still utterly terrorised - the terror that if they leave this camp, they’ll be raped or murdered. They’ve seen that happen when the so-called Janjaweed or militias have burnt their villages, killed their cattle, raped the women, killed the men.

    “And when you say that (United Nations’ Secretary-General) Kofi Annan’s been there, the Government of Sudan have signed an agreement to promise security - why can’t you go back to your village, plant your crops...not a single one says ‘I believe it’s safe to go back’. They don’t trust their government, they don’t trust the way they’ve been arming them with cars and helicopters and weapons and the way the Government of Sudan has tweaked the historic feelings between Arab Muslim and African Muslim. So what you see is terror and that’s what was really numbing for me. In most Third World situations, you see some play and joy; kids kicking a Coke tin and having more fun than kids back home so there’s something redeeming and hopeful. But there was no hope. This was just terror and that’s really what disturbed me...”

Has the world’s response to what’s been happening in Sudan been fast enough?
“It’s been very, very slow. The Kalma (refugee) camp has been there since July last year. The truth is that Iraq sucks all the oxygen, all the attention, all the money. The Americans have spent $280 billion on 25 million people with no end in sight...That is quite extraordinary. The response has been slow; it’s still not too late to save a million people but there’s no doubt many more could have been saved if we’ve responded with more urgency.”

You broke down at a press conference on your return to Australia. Did you expect to have such a strong reaction to what you saw in Sudan?
“No, I didn’t. I’ve been to lots of parts of the world and I’ve seen some pretty bad things. On one level, it’s not a good thing to debrief in front of the press...but on another level, I didn’t plan to be in tears but it was the best thing I could have done. There were many, many people who actually thought ‘I should be aware of this, this must be really bad’ so it actually broke through. I don’t plan to cry...but it moved me in ways that I didn’t expect.”

You joined World Vision in March. What do you expect from this role and what do you expect to give to this role?
“I expected to find an organisation that took the Gospel very seriously - that was a Christian, humanitarian organisation that said our response to poverty must include a spiritual dimension because there is more than just wealth creation and economic opportunity. There is also capacity building which is about character and honesty and spiritual commitment and all of those things so that you’re going to have leaders that govern right and look after the community rather than their extended family and their own clan.

    “I’ve spent 20 years working in domestic poverty and I’ve proud of what I have achieved but also it was getting a bit stale - I could talk about those issues under wet concrete - gambling and things like that. I needed, I think, one, an intellectual challenge and a whole new set of issues - world trade organisations and the world bank and who sets the rules of trade that lock poor countries out. Two, a whole new set of moral issues and absolute poverty is really the big moral challenge to the world...September 11 was terrible - 3,000 people died - but unreported was that on that same day there were 20,000 deaths, mainly children, of preventable disease and malnutrition. And the next day, September 12, another 20,000. And the next day and everyday since. Which says that this war on terror, this security agenda, is all about us. Terror has been stalking all along, but it’s never actually affected us. (If) there is to be a true security agenda you have to have a war on poverty that addresses the war on terror. Otherwise desperate people will be recruited to be suicide bombers and martyrs on the promise that their families will still be provided for.”

Going from dealing with domestic issues, such as gambling, to confronting global problems, such as absolute poverty, does it feel a bit overwhelming given that some of these problems have been with us for ever and probably always will be?
“Well, gambling’s been going on since man can recall too - there are certainly some connections with stubborn problems that you deal with. I think I have felt there is a new day dawning. Young people growing up in a globalised age - used to the idea of travel and the free movement of ideas - I think are potentially much more aware of being global citizens and seeing the shadow side of all the good from globalisation - why are we destroying stockpiles of food when there are starving people? Who sets the rules of trade that lock out agricultural products from Africa to Europe, Japan and America? I think there’s a whole hopeful agenda emerging of young people just asking the why question. Why do we accept absolute poverty and on what basis? I think it’s a daunting agenda but I feel there’s also hope...

    “I say to them my generation failed. We sort of had our Sixties revolution and said all the world needs is love and then continued to fight wars and we continued to sell out by living out what I call the wealth to happiness agenda that says the wealthier you are, the happier you’ll be. The new generation, I think, is probably the one best equipped to know the great moral challenges and to ask why can’t we address them and who’s stopping us? My generation has failed in many senses. I’m more hopeful for the next one.”

Do you think there is a need for the church to embrace this potential?
“Absolutely. What amazes me is when I say to young people who talk about their spiritual journey - and it might be a ‘new age’ form - and say that down the road is a church youth group with kids your age on a similar journey in their faith, it becomes quite an extraordinary, novel idea to them that a church would have young people who are taking faith seriously. It’s like, ‘Really, you too?’ ...I think the way Jesus approached mission was exciting. He said before you sign up with me you don’t have to do six months of theology and three months of ethics , He said ‘Join the band and get out on the road. Let’s see what God does in who we encounter and the discussions we have and the confrontations’...It’s actually communal, it’s interactive, it’s engaging with what’s happening in the world not where heaven is some spiritual place removed.”

So it’s about practically getting out there, hands on - something which the church hasn’t always been particularly effective at?
“Lots of people sort of have the church in the box which says they expect it to be hands on, caring and looking after the poor but they haven’t also understood that the church is about a whole dynamic lifestyle. I think the greens have communicated lifestyle better than the church - you cycle to work, you recycle your waste, you plant trees and there’s a rhythm to life and a discipline to it and a practice. I think most people think of Christians as living by a set of negative rules rather than life-giving rules - a set of don’ts. So one of the do’s is to be engaged in the world. This is the world God loves passionately, that He gave His Son’s life for and that He hasn’t given up on. That takes us into embracing this world as God’s world and good rather than escaping from this world as sinful and negative and evil. I think that’s the shift at World Vision that I’m trying to lead.”

World Vision in the past may not have always been particularly identified as Christian organisation. Is that a culture change that you think has occurred in the organisation over the past decade?
“Yes and I’m committed to pushing that. World Vision has been an extraordinary organisation. One in every two dollars Australians give for overseas aid goes through World Vision. It’s as big as all the others put together. It’s been wonderfully effective at transferring wealth and resources to the poor. The big challenge now is to have a lifestyle and a level of partnership with the poor that is two ways so that we learn from them. They often have a high level of community, vitality and connection whereas we have an epidemic of depression and suicide and drug use and individualisation. So how do we take this next step and say it’s not just putting a truckload of money and resources in and saying that’s our job done. How is it really a partnership - spiritual and relational and engaged?”

In recent months, your brother Peter Costello (Federal Treasurer) has been making news for his attendance at Hillsong and his speech at the National Day of Thanksgiving. Has his involvement come as a surprise to you?
“Look I think it’s been good for Peter. He had been broadening his identity without a lot of success - he had made a speeching on volunteering and was roundly canned for it...but on this one, saying let’s get back to the basic values of a Judeo-Christian ethic and in his case, faith in Jesus...there’s been a wellspring of response. People are saying, ‘Yes, that’s right, let’s remember the things that are deep and significant and eternal’. And I think that’s been a very good thing for him to have done.”

Given the timing - we’re in the lead up to a federal election - there has been some cynicism about his motives. Is that just something he has to let wash off his shoulders?
“Every human being and a politician maybe more than most is a grab bag of mixed motives and who can say what those motives are. With a federal election, there will be those who say this is a cynical vote winning exercise. You’d have to talk to him but I think he’d say, ‘No, this is what I actually believe’.”

Lastly, if you had a message for the Christian community in Australia today, what would it be?
“It would be take Jesus seriously. The grand challenge to the church is always how much do we really know about Jesus? Yes, we preach Him and we believe in Him and we know He is Lord but taking him seriously - and the content of His teaching, the Sermon on the Mount seriously - I think that is the great challenge for Christians.”