THE INTERVIEW: PAT MESITI

8th May, 2006 By late 2001, Sydney's Pat Mesiti was one of Australia’s most well-known evangelists and a high-profile corporate speaker. Then came a very public moral fall and Mesiti stepped down from ministry. In February, after an absence of four-and-a-half years, the 46-year-old started preaching once again. He spoke with DAVID ADAMS about what led to him stepping down and his return to public ministry... Pat, thanks for your time. You’ve just returned to preaching after a considerable absence. What happened that caused you to move out of preaching? “Basically, about four-and-a-half years ago or so, I was on a speaking tour in America and I received a phone call and had to come home because an area of my life that was out of order was brought to light. I’d fallen morally and it came to light through a series of events and I came home. My (church) leadership confronted me on it and I owned up to it...Probably the hardest day of my life was in telling my children that their father had failed.”   “I was stood down, and rightfully so, and what I thought was a long sentence in my life was actually something that saved my neck and really got me on track spiritually." Can you tell us a little bit about what it was - there was nothing illegal involved in what happened? “No, there was nothing illegal. There’s so many rumours out there about what I did and what I was supposed to have done. Someone said something about ‘predatory behaviour’ which I was not (involved in) and someone said I’d been dealing drugs - I’ve never even smoked a drug in my life. I was basically struggling with a sexual addiction and again, I reiterate, I did not do anything that was illegal.” You’ve mentioned that since you stepped down, you’ve been going through a ‘healing and restoration’ process. What’s that involved? “I was stood down, and rightfully so, and what I thought was a long sentence in my life was actually something that saved my neck and really got me on track spiritually. The process of restoration was, of course, standing down, and just learning to be a Christian rather than a ‘preacher’...There was a process of counselling - and I can tell people now I never believed in counselling until I needed it. And having good friends - there was not a lot of friends that I could talk to about it because I don’t believe you should talk to everybody about your situation but to good leaders...I kept going to church week in, week out - that was very hard sometimes and very embarrassing at times. But I kept going to the house of God because I knew the church was where I would get healing...” What prompted you to start preaching again now? “It wasn’t just me...I tell people that you don’t have the call of God, the call of God’s got you...I certainly would go back and forth on but I couldn’t shake it off. It wasn’t just me - I don’t deserve probably to preach ever again - but there’s obviously some people around me that seriously believe in me and believe in the gift of God - and my family certainly did, my wife and my children - and on that basis, (on that of) my spiritual leadership, Pastor Phil Pringle, and on the green light of other Christian leaders, we felt that it was good, that it was the right time.” Obviously at the time of your stepping down there was criticism both from within the church and without the church... “Actually, most of the criticism was from within the church.” ...and, I was going to ask, it is the criticism that comes from within the hardest to bear? “The media - they weren’t after me, they were really after Brian and Hillsong. You know, Hillsong’s a great church and I tell people ‘Hillsong never hurt me, I hurt them; the body of Christ never hurt me, I hurt them’. But, you know, we’ve had people that have just said terrible things and it’s very hurtful. One of my friends - a successful businessman who’s not a Christian - said to me ‘Let me get this right Pat - you Christians, you’re the forgiven, is that right?’ I said yes. He said ‘Jesus died to cleanse all your sins?’ ‘Yep -He’s thrown them all in the sea of forgetfulness’ . And he said ‘You know what? For a bunch of forgiven people, you’re very unforgiving. Why do you people keep getting the scuba gear out?’. And I thought that was quite funny, I’d never heard anyone really put it that way before.” You’re now going to Christian City Church in Oxford Falls...What prompted you to move from Hillsong? “It’s a long story. I just felt that it was very hard for Brian and for the team there...People just didn’t know what to do and I was there and I want to get married now and I want to start again and we just kind of felt that it was time for me maybe to get a clean start and a clean break somewhere.”   "I never once thought of walking away, it didn’t even cross my mind. That was never an option and I think you’ve got to make up your mind whether you really believe in this Christian deal or not." When you stepped down from ministry in 2001, you were a best-selling author, presenting a weekly show on the Australian Christian Channel, and travelling the world talking to huge audiences. As a result of what happened, you lost your marriage, your business and you say, your friendships were ‘tested’. How hard is it to come back after such a public fall and was there a time when you were tempted to walk away from the church altogether? “Well, let me first say that it is a very long walk home. And it’s a very painful walk home. Being such a public figure - you’d walk through airports and you’d hear things that people would say...it was a very hard walk, but a very worthwhile walk. I never once thought of walking away, it didn’t even cross my mind. That was never an option and I think you’ve got to make up your mind whether you really believe in this Christian deal or not. I get so disappointed with leaders that fall and they never go back to the church - they never follow the Lord and they get bitter at everybody rather than owning their own stuff. And I think through God’s grace and mercy, I’ve been able to own my stuff...That’s pretty hard, the blame. You can justify it but it doesn’t heal you, it doesn’t help you. It’s the old story of the serpent and Adam and Eve in the garden where you’re all looking for blame.” Do you think that now that you’re back in a public forum preaching, the experience you’ve been through will be useful in that? “It’s very easy to talk to me now about stuff and...On a one-on-one session, I find it very easy...but at my first preaching (session) I couldn’t sleep for a week or so, I was tossing and turning. But it was great and we’re back. I’m taking invitations and so forth - I’m certainly not going to be spending the rest of my life talking about the past but if I can use it to help some people...especially the leaders (I will).” Do you think your experience helped to bring home to you in a new way, the spiritual condition of man? “I knew it and I preached it. But, gosh, when you go through something like that...And also, I remember, one of my friends Steve Kelly telling me ‘Pat, you know, everything you’ve preached to others, it all applies to you - all the forgiveness’. I’ve got to tell you, it was very hard to believe that...” Since your return to preaching, has there a particular message, God’s burning on your heart? “Oh, how many?...I think one thing that I do believe is that I believe everything I believed before and preached before but I believe it more now. I certainly believe in the message of prosperity more now than I ever did. When I had a big income coming in - and boy, there were a lot of rumours about that as well, what I was earning - it’s easier to believe Jehovah Jireh and He’s the provider and then all of a sudden you’ve got nothing coming in and you still believe that He’s Jehovah Jireh. I think it’s certainly made me a lot softer towards people’s predicaments and I’ve probably realised that everybody has issues. And that’s why we need a Saviour and that’s why I love the Lord so much... I’ve preached in church at the moment and I’ve said, you know, ‘How many of you here think you have disappointed God?’ and 98 per cent of the congregation raise their hand. ‘Well,’ (I say), ‘I’ve got news for you - you can never disappoint the Lord. He has no allusions about you in the first place - He knows exactly what He’s got, He knows what I’ve made of and He’s knows that I’ve got clay feet and that’s why He bids me to come to His mercy seat’...”   "I try and teach people to think differently - to think generously, to think prosperously, to think graciously, to be a bigger person. That’s my message really...” The last few years you’ve been working as a motivational speaker and are known as “Mr Motivation”...Your website talks about getting a ‘millionaire mindset’ - what do you mean by that? “It’s basically a catchy phrase on how to really renew your mind. People live like kings and think like paupers and it doesn’t work. I try and teach people to think differently - to think generously, to think prosperously, to think graciously, to be a bigger person. That’s my message really...” There’s obviously been considerable debate about prosperity doctrine... “It’s not a doctrine, it’s a principle...” ...what are your thoughts on that? “I believe that God gives us prosperity for a purpose in every area of your life - in your relationships, in your faith. People like some of the great charismatic leaders of some of our large churches, they get torn down by the media and yet some New Age guru comes over here, charges $2,000, fleeces everybody and tells a pack of lies and the media have got no problem with that. Yet a man of God will get up and teach something that is Biblically sound...and get shot down in flames, even from some of his own people. It’s never about the money. It’s not about money, it’s about people and helping people live better, think better, act better and be generous and be kind and be fruitful and have a big spirit. I’m kind of going - where is the problem with this message? I don’t know where the problem is, it’s beyond me.” So the money really is irrelevant in that sense - whether you have a lot or a little? “You know, the widow’s mites - she gave all she had. She was generous. She wasn’t a millionaire but boy, she had something about her that was different to all the others. The millionaires were broke in their thinking - they gave out of their stinginess, she gave out of her abundance of heart. That’s where people kind of miss it.” Can you now go a little back further in time and tell us about how you came to be a Christian in the first place? “I gave my life to Christ when I was a teenager at an Assemblies of God church in Sydney. My grandmother had been in the faith and she would share the Lord with us and, of course, me being an arrogant, smart teenager, I didn’t want to hear it. But then I went to Italy and came back and..went to a youth group and gave my life to Christ. There was a guy there from Youth With A Mission who preached that night and I gave my life to the Lord.” You went on to become one of the pioneers of Youth Alive in Australia - how did that come about? “(I)’ve always had this burning desire to help young people and I was involved in a youth group as a youth pastor - a very conservative one at that - and I just felt we needed to do something. I was involved with another gentlemen in starting Youth Alive in Sydney and he kind of fell by the way and I took it on to a state event and got it more, not so much bands orientated, but worship and praise orientated. I really believe that Youth Alive was the instigator for a lot of the modern-day worship that we have in Australia...I think Youth Alive as a whole was very instrumental in what we have now. As a matter of fact, quite a lot of the Youth Alive team were people like Darlene Zschech and Geoff Bullock and...John Waller and Randall Waller - so a lot of the modern-day heroes of praise and worship were members of the Youth Alive band...” "My passion has always been to build the local church. It hasn’t left me and I want to continue to do that." Where do you see yourself five years from now? “Five years from now?...Let me put it this way: I still think my calling is to come alongside pastors and help build their churches through winning people to Christ. I see myself as doing more of the same - not the negative behaviour, by the way - but more of the same as far as reaching lost people and reaching broken people and helping those that need help. My passion has always been to build the local church. It hasn’t left me and I want to continue to do that. Evangelism, crusades, business functions - any opportunity we can get to really impact people. That’s what I really see myself doing is being a builder of churches and being a builder of people...I can’t undo what I did and I won’t do it either because there is no way you can unravel that. But the best I can do is try by...the Lord’s ability to forget what lies behind and press on to help build what Jesus is building and that’s His church. That’s where I see myself in five years time and hopefully for the rest of my life. I’m very grateful to God that He’s given me a second chance. People say that God’s a God of second chances and I say ‘Well, God’s a God of the seventy times seventh chance’. We must never limit God and His ability to use us - what He can do and what He can’t do - and I think alot of people do that...I’m open to whatever God has for me but it will always be, I think, in the confines of helping to build the local church and winning people to Himself.”

Your Say

Comment left by Pastor Lynn It's great to see what God does in our lives how much He cares for us and how He wants to restore back to us even more. Pat will have a compassion and understanding now and be able to help so many others. Love you Pat, Keep Preaching!!

Comment left by KJ I read Jimmy Bakker's book "I was wrong" some years ago. He was a prosperity teacher who feel morally and financally, and his time in jail led him to re-read the gospels over and over again. He finally realised that Prosperity teaching was wrong, and completely the reverse of the emphasis of Jesus. Bakker even said he thanked God that God did not strike him dead for teaching such terrible errors. So either Jimmy Bakker is wrong NOW and Pat is right to still be an enthusiastic Prosperity Teacher, OR Pat still hasn't learnt THAT lesson yet. But thank God Pat seems to have learnt the other lesson - the moral one - and has addressed it. I hope and pray he stays on the straight and narrow in at least that area of his life. God willing, (and Pat willing), he might just learn that prosperity teaching is unbiblical as well!

Comment left by Ann Love this line in your final paragraph "‘Well, God’s a God of the seventy times seventh chance’. We must never limit God and His ability to use us - what He can do and what He can’t do - and I think alot of people do that..." Thank you I needed to hear this, both for my own shortcomings and errors, and for the way I judge the shortcomings in others....

Comment left by Jared Really encouraging to see how Pat has come through all this with his life built on the right foundations. He is a true hero in my eyes, one who is willing to face up and do what is right. The prosperity principles that Pat teaches are life changing, in my families life I can vouch for the impact of applying this Godly principle which enables us to be generous in ways we never though were possible. After all, if you've only enough for yourself, how on earth can you help anyone else? Good on ya Pat, keep up the good work.

Comment left by Qwerty I grew up with leaders such as Pat and his generation and ended up feeling like a sheep to be herded into a room. Leadership became less about leading the people long-term and more about "results". The modern pentecostal church under their oversight has become all about numbers. Numbers of "salvations", numbers in the plate, his church has XXXX number of people etc etc. I can't say enough about how profoundly painful it is to see people such as this rise on a dual platform of theology and theatre, earn trust and support, fall because of the lack of a moral compass (or wilful ignorance thereof) and then seek restoration like nothing ever happened. New press photos and everything! If Pat wants to serve then let him serve quietly in the back room, making a real difference by supporting the mission of the church with his actions rather than his words. Those that rise should do so on a basis of consistent, humble and righteous service. I'm pretty well convinced that these "stars" are a club of their own. They're all mates and I bet they all go to the same accountant. I never once read about Jesus talking statistics. He talked God and people, because they are the only things that matter. He didn't have charitable status or a family trust. He just did what mattered. I'll listen to a servant over a "star" eight days a week. Pat says "It’s never about the money. It’s not about money, it’s about people and helping people live better, think better, act better and be generous and be kind and be fruitful and have a big spirit. I’m kind of going - where is the problem with this message?" I guess that's why he has a site called Millionaire Mindset Club, which you can join - for a price. Money should never be the centre of your teaching. Cover it up as generosity if you like, but that's a very thin veil. And you can't claim Christ as the centre of your teaching if it always leads back to prosperity and well-being. That's using Christ as a vehicle to spread your word about prosperity and well-being. The gospel is pure and simple: Christ crucified, sins forgiven. It's the core of God's heart. Not prosperity.

Comment left by Prema Everyone makes mistakes...some of us get found out and the rest of us don't. But we all do things we know we shouldn't. I think Pat Mesiti is one of the bravest men there are to rise up again, against all odds and become a people lifter again. To go out day afer day, week after week, year after year, helping people when he really doesn't have to. Pain, hurt, oppression, reality, LIFE gets to all of us, and most of us can never get over it. As far as God is concerned,I'm not Christian, but i do go to church because i believe the Christian faith has so much love and compassion to offer this world. My own faith is beautiful to me, and the similarities behind all major religions is incredibly striking. If people only studied them enough to know that,we'd all be better off, instead of just shutting off everyone else, people like Pat bring us all together, and the message is one of love. There's nothing wrong with prospering and instead of pulling them down, we should be grateful to those who help us get there. He is an amazing man who has risen against everything and inspires so many people today not despite but because ofeverything he went through. If we had the strength to bear everything he went through, we'd go through it too, because those with the most faith are the most harshly tested...and conquer.

Comment left by left behind God does not tempt. If you believe this guy and his type, good luck to you 'cos you are certainly going to need it.

Comment left by Westy I grew up in the church at the time of Mesiti, Fletcher, Alcorn, Hills, Houston, etc. Yeh. some have stuffed up. They are human as are we. They (including Mesiti) have been inspiration in many areas of many peoples lives. Ultimately things are between the man and his Maker. Get over it, get on with life and get closer to God yourself.

Comment left by John @ Fraser Speaking is a gift where so many can be touched and changed by stories and experiences so valuable and real. Pat, things happen for the right reasons and its our choices in response that matters. You have a skill which is easily the best I have seen and you have inspired me to continue mine with total focus and direction. Thanks for the coffee. My Washington Memorial is in London at Trafalgar Square. Keep up your great work.

Comment left by Justin Power I am excited for Pastor Pat Mesiti, People who can bounce back again and keep doing what God has called them to be before the foundations of the world, is amazing. We all sin and fall short, we all stuff up even a righteous man falls seven times but he gets back up again. The Principal is Getting Back Up Again. Pastor Pat I stand with you in your future endevours and you preach like there's no tomorrow. AMEN Justin Power from Worship Centre Pastor Clark & Anne Taylor.

Comment left by Dave I say good on Pat for literally keeping the faith and i pray many more lives will be led to God through his catching talks. I have no criticism to Pat's style or delivery (young people need extreme presentations now in case some of you older people missed that boat), nor do I have a probem with the money thing - for goodness' sake, leave the money issue alone. The topic of money has always been the issue for marraige failures as well as christian backstabbing and fallouts. I agree with the use of the story of the New Testament widow and the little that she had to give, it's all relevant. If you have little, give what you can, if you have much then give much without selfish aim. Go Pat, preach the gospel, and show the critics how the grace of God works, you're as good an example as the rest of us!

Comment left by Andrew The prosperity doctrine is not a doctrine it's a principle?! This may well be true, but from where does the priciple come? Does the desire to "have" stem from the heart of God or the heart of self-focused, existential man? Was the principle evident in the life of Jesus Christ, the crucified God? The very man from who came the phrase "It is harder for a camel to go through the eye of a needle then for a rich man to get into heaven.' WHo cleared the temple in righteous anger because His fathers house had been turned into a marketplace. Was it evident in the life of His apostles? Paul worked as a tentmaker so that he would not be a burdon on the churches he established, he was very much against peddling the gospel for profit. Is it now evidenced in the life of suffering, persecuted YET effective christians throughout the so-called Non'Christian countries. No, it is not. Not without a generous amount of self-deception anyway. Wake up to yourself people, the cross is a message of self-denial and servanthood. We have turned it into a heavenly cash register to satisfy our own lusts, regardless of the spin that is put on it.

Comment left by helen I was fortunate enough to see and hear Pat at our church in Rockingham WA and found him to be honest and truthful about his past mistakes, so how many people in high profile jobs do you know of can do that? I feel very lucky to have met this man and here about his struggles and how he overcame them.You are an inspiration Pat! Keep going strong.

Comment left by Bob Well Pat I'm that YWAM guy from YWAM who preached that night. I still vaguely remember you and your mates sitting somewhere up the back of the church and looking at me in a challenging manner. What I want to say is that it is just great to have you back on deck. I often wondered what may have happened after Hillsong. I was concerned about you and even thought about contacting you to offer you at least some moral support, but had no way of knowing where you where. Strangely, I have little to do with the church these days, not because of any problems, but because we all move on, don't we. Cheers, Bob

Comment left by PM Most of the commentators should go out right away and buy Tanya Levin's recent book "People in Glass Houses"; it is questioning, intelligent and soul-baring. The Anaesthetic type of sanitised Christianity espoused by the Hillsong machine is even more alarming and wrong to me now than it was before. Thank you, Tanya

Comment left by Steve Just finished reading Tanya Levin's book and am shattered. I used to hold Pat Mesiti as something of a hero. Several of his books and tapes are on my shelves - well-used. I cannot leave them there any longer. Thank God tomorrow is our garbage collection day! Pat's "fall from grace" is a serious blow. I notice that so many of the articles only refer to "serious moral failure" or some such. Levin is somewhat more specific. I cannot believe that this man is being let loose on gullible young people again, Christian or not.

Comment left by Sara I attended Hills christian Life Centre (Now Hillsong)& Youth Alive in my youth and always looked up to Pat. I remember all his talks about young people saving themselves for marriage & preaching that you should "kiss & hold hands" with boyfriends and to be guided by how you would act in front of your parents when dating. I remember the back masking days when he preahed thet rock music was evil and to burn & destroy all rock music. We were told Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody was evil and when played backwards it said something like "smoke marijauna". I can laugh about the insanity of it now but how scary that as teenagers we believed all this to be the truth! I finally left Hillsong in my early 20's and know it was the right decision, I felt liberated and free to be myself. What makes me so frustrated is that Pat who put himself on that pedestal preaching about "purity" to thousands of youth has minimized what he has done. he deflects all questions about what happened and always firmly stating "there was nothing illegal", like that makes it all ok. It's so easy to play up "God's forgiveness" for anything and everything. The hypocracy of the pastors at Hillsong amazes me and how they can keep making money from vulnerable people. I will read Tanya Levin's book with great interest. I think she is brave to write this book, I know first hand how any questioning about Hillsong present & past is made to look like you are bitter & lost your way with god. U go girl! Can I ask why most of the ministers & priests that fall from grace is always sexually related?

Comment left by Julius I've seen Pat preach before and after his fall. I've also been at Hillsong for quite a while, and applaud the church and Pat for opening up faith and worship to countless young people who otherwise would not have found God. Any Friday night Hillsong hosts several thousand kids, and that has nothing to do with money. It costs them big time to do it; they have many struggles with the mechanics of Youth, yet they do it better than many. God Bless.

Comment left by Bob Bob back again, the former YWAM guy that Pat mentioned above. Yes, I too just finished Tanya Levin's book a week or so ago and join the applause for her show of strength and fortitude in writing it. It certainly reflected much of my own thoughts over the years about groups such as Hillsong and YWAM; groups which may not fall within the strict gamut of a 'cult', but nonetheless because of their organisational structure and dynamics, are very 'cultish'. I was raised in the Elim Four Square and after the usual mid-adolescent jaunt with a joint (it was actually beer in those straight days) I ended up with the AOG and attended their bible college. Later I joined YWAM, and looking back recall a fairly genuine desire to serve god and make a positive difference in the lives of young people. After a couple of years however I was disturbed by some of the behaviour of leadership that is well described by Tanya in her book, “People in Glass Houses”. I eventually left the organisation after other issues came to the fore such as when YWAM started espousing the belief that the USA was especially chosen by god to bless the whole world (wonder what the tens of thousands of dead and maimed Iraqis now think about this brilliant hypothesis, aye - let alone the poor old YWAMmers from outside this blessed American fold?). No, I didn’t fall out with leadership or anything like that. I was in fact one of the ‘fair headed young men’ who just started to exercise his intellect and appraise the organisation he was committed to in an intelligent and rational manner. It would be too lengthy for this comment page to go into all the parallels that I see between YWAM and Hillsong in line with themes raised by Tanya in her book, but let me say that in my opinion there are some disturbing parallels to be drawn. But life goes on doesn’t it and it is better to make the difficult transition and leave, rather than compromise your personal integrity and stay on to grow into a disgruntled, bitter or ‘neutralised’ individual. In fact I left and went through a period of significant withdrawal. I can remember sitting in the university library in my second year (writing one of the seeming hundreds of required essays) and thinking how I longed for the excitement and challenge of the good old Mission. Well, like all addicts committed to seeing the cold turkey process through to the end, I struggled through a genuine existential crisis and came out he other end a relatively intact human being (well, in my opinion that is!). I later qualified in anthropology, psychology and education, disciplines that I thank for honing my appreciation for critical analysis of human behaviour. Well, I could go on and on, but will stop there. In closing though, let me say, that to me, the important thing in life is to practice genuine care for others whenever and wherever possible, without compromising our own safety and basic need for things such as financial security and the like. We also have to try to be honest in these endeavours and if we catch ourselves hurting one of the ‘little ones’, we should stop and re-evaluate our motives and direction in life. So it goes for Hillsong, YWAM, members of the Millionaires Mindset Club, me and ‘yous’.

Comment left by Bob I would like to provide a comment to a reader’s question above. Sara asked (rhetorically?) as to why so many ministers and priests fail in ministry because of sexual sin. Good question, and one that has a number of answers; including I suggest, the apostle Paul’s seeming overvalued interest in this aspect of human behaviour and the likelihood that his views have encouraged too many Christians to get hung up on this mono-issue. However, an additional hypothesis that I have toyed with as a result of my experience as a mental health clinician is that individuals tend to largely self-select to different denominational affiliations, and as such, individual differences related to personality and disposition play a large part in the normative behaviours that mark the respective denominations. In the case of Pentecostalist groups like Hillsong, many join because they are attracted to the more extroverted form of worship and challenging service opportunities (no boring ‘high’ Anglican stuff there, that’s for sure!). So who are these individuals likely to be, or should I say what type of personality traits and behaviours are these individuals likely to display? Of course, the more extroverted, outgoing and gregarious traits and behaviours from my experience. In a dispositional sense, they may be over-representative of individuals who experience some degree of hypomania, but not mania per se. One of my psychiatrist colleagues describes it as “constitutional hypomania”, and as such was suggesting that it doesn’t necessarily need to be classified as a mental disorder, but may be seen in a more dispositional context (that’ll create some debate among health professionals!). Clearly then, one of the characteristics of such individuals is a heightened drive to engage in pleasurable activities that includes sex, among other things. You can easily read up on hypomania when you google ‘hypomania’ - Wikipedia’s definition appears sound and is worth looking at. However, I hasten to point out, in view of the Christian context of this website, that individuals who display hypomanic behaviour are not evil or sinful; god forbid! Rather they are just naturally expressing their ‘god-given’ disposition to be a little more interested in pleasure than the average introvert. Throw this hypothesis into the equation and I think we may better understand why Pentecostalist ministers in particular have a reportedly higher probability of getting chucked out because they like sex too much. (Maybe a little medication might have helped after all if the impact is this catastrophic, aye?). No, I am not suggesting that all Pentecostalists, or indeed Pentecostal clergy have a greater than normal penchant for pleasure, or sex for that matter. Rather, I am putting forward the notion that compared to the whole community of churchgoers, Pentecostalists seem to demonstrate personality traits and behaviours that mark them out as a rather gay group (the cheerful and lively type of gay I mean!). After all I should know, I was born into Pentecostalism and stayed in the fold until my late 30’s. Glad to be out though!

Comment left by Bob Please read my above comment about the sexual behaviour of ministers and priests with the caveat that I am absolutely opposed to such behaviour when it is engaged in by a person in a position of trust and where the behaviour is likely to negatively impact on a sexual partner. I am also absolutely opposed to illegal expressions of such behaviour. Besides these caveats, personal judgements about the 'good' or 'bad' aspects such behaviour depends entirely on one's beliefs and value system; although from my reading, the New Testament appears to give a fairly clear statement about the morality of such behaviour, including what we should expect in respect to the clergy.

Comment left by Bernadette Yes, we ARE christians, we never said we were perfect. Go Pat, I am looking forward to hearing you speak at out breakfast at Coronis Realty next week!!

Comment left by Bob Sadly, I again read about another ‘religious right’ individual who is having trouble reconciling his 'public self' with his "private self'. The Sydney Morning Herald reported on 29 October 2007 that Family First Party candidate for the Western Sydney seat of Reid, Andrew Quah, has allegedly been caught with his pants down (literally). The SMH article stated that photos of Mr Quah, parading his private parts, appeared on gay websites and that Mr Quah admitted to looking at porn websites in the past two weeks. While I have nothing personal against the Mr Quah who allegedly stated that he was humiliated by these events, it is again a sad reflection of the high level of sexual tension among individuals who follow the more fundamentalist and Pentecostalist doctrinaire lifestyle. My goodness, these people are only human, but the trouble is they cannot seem to admit their humanness, but rather get themselves into all sought of trouble living double lives! Why not just decide to be HONEST and live just one life? Why not be REAL and enjoy the personal freedom it brings? Alas, religion often binds people up into such tight balls that much effort is expended in keeping images of the ‘true self’ secreted away, while at the same time parading an image of the ‘false self’ to the world. Regrettably I witnessed this phenomenon all too often during my 57 years in the church. How unfortunate it is that people can go through their whole lives being too afraid to express their true selves and therefore forfeit the joy of living a really fairdinkum life. No, I am not talking about freedom in the sense of expressing some deviant form of sexuality, but rather finding a healthy expression of one’s sexual orientation without having to resort to lurking in the hallways of an impersonal sexual cyberspace to find gratification. Maybe Richard Dawkins has a point to make after all in his book, “The God Delusion” in respect to how fundamentalist forms of all religions can blind human beings so they are unable to think outside of their well-established ‘squares’, even the Four Square doctrine on which I was raised in my formative years. How utterly tragic!

Comment left by Charlie What an refreshing thing it is to find some informed comments when surfing web! Thanks to Bob, but where are the replies? Come on evangelicals and Pentecostalists, how about a bit of critical analysis of Bob's comments. Surely you believe that god gave us a mind as as well as emotions and a soul. I think that good honest debate is a healthy thing, don't you? At least that is what I was led to believe when I trained in biblical apologetics. I refrain to comment as I have no bones to pick with Bob at this time, but I am sure there are some who are just itching to do so.

Comment left by catattac It was TIm Costello who said - "The quickest way to degrade the gospel, is to link it with money and the pursuit of money. It is the total opposite of what Jesus preached. Agree 100%

Comment left by Get a life People, stop judging on issues you are not knowledgable in. You weren't there and it's between the sinner and the Almighty God. Sins have been brought forward and God has forgiven. Let it go! Maybe we could look at ourselves instead. Remember all sins are equal in the eyes of God. As the bible clearly states, "Pull the plank out of your own eye before picking the spec out of your brothers'." And "you who is without sin cast the first stone." I'm appauled at people's lack of character. Take a deep look at yourselves and let God change your own hearts and forgive YOUR sins. There's not enough time to pick and judge other's mistakes or to pull apart a church that has done amazing things in our generation. this church has put Christianity on the map. Sure there's stuff we don't all agree on that has been done in the past, and there'll be stuff in the future we don't agree on, but look at the changed lives and fulfilled people. Look at what God has done in their lives. That's something we can all talk about instead! A Mighty, Mighty God!!

Comment left by Freedom 2 b[e] Extract from 'A life of unlearning - a journey to find the truth' by Anthony Venn-Brown It was time to find someone else to take on Youth Alive and so I approached Mark, an experienced youth leader, who was managing a Christian organisation in New Zealand. As I’d been supporting myself through Every Believer Evangelism, Youth Alive had no salary to offer him and he declined. Pat Mesiti, the youth pastor of an Italian congregation in Sydney, had been my enthusiastic assistant, so he was my next choice. Pat did a tremendous job and under his dynamic leadership, Youth Alive continued to grow, opening up opportunities for him to preach around Australia and overseas. Seeing the potential in Pat, Brian Houston, the senior pastor of Hillsong Church, invited him to join their team. Basing himself at the large church in Sydney, Pat became a very popular speaker and sold thousands of tapes, videos and books on youth topics, as well as speaking regularly at multi-level marketing conferences for companies like Amway. It hurt me when I heard, not long after I had fallen off the radar so to speak, that Pat had taken on the title of ‘founder’ of Youth Alive NSW. My teenage daughters were finding it difficult enough to come to terms with what had happened to their dad, but hearing Pat regularly acknowledged for what their father had done caused them even more pain. My sense of pride and achievement in founding a successful youth organisation, eventually growing to events of 20,000 or more people, was now, along with many other things, also to be taken from me. However, Pat would eventually discover himself what it’s like to have your humanity become public knowledge, with all the pain and grief this brings to your family. In 2002, Pat was stood down from all ministry in the Assemblies of God because of misconduct, the result of a sexual addiction. I’m sure he was unaware how blessed he was to have a pastor like Brian Houston support him and his family in counselling and other ways. This support meant Pat could focus on getting his life and marriage back on track in order to be restored to the ministry. Sadly, even with that support, Pat’s marriage didn’t survive. Phil Pringle, the Senior Pastor of another mega-church in Sydney, willingly took Pat’s healing and rehabilitation in hand. In his new church home and with his new wife Andrea, Pat was re-instated as a preacher on Sunday 19 February 2006 and serves God with a new awareness and humility. The Christian Church—a place of love, forgiveness and restoration—proved to be so for Pat. His repentance opened doors and people came to his rescue. Why hadn't it worked like that for me? I wondered. Was my sin so unforgivable? It was time to find someone else to take on Youth Alive and so I approached Mark, an experienced youth leader, who was managing a Christian organisation in New Zealand. As I’d been supporting myself through Every Believer Evangelism, Youth Alive had no salary to offer him and he declined. Pat Mesiti, the youth pastor of an Italian congregation in Sydney, had been my enthusiastic assistant, so he was my next choice. Pat did a tremendous job and under his dynamic leadership, Youth Alive continued to grow, opening up opportunities for him to preach around Australia and overseas. Seeing the potential in Pat, Brian Houston, the senior pastor of Hillsong Church, invited him to join their team. Basing himself at the large church in Sydney, Pat became a very popular speaker and sold thousands of tapes, videos and books on youth topics, as well as speaking regularly at multi-level marketing conferences for companies like Amway. It hurt me when I heard, not long after I had fallen off the radar so to speak, that Pat had taken on the title of ‘founder’ of Youth Alive NSW. My teenage daughters were finding it difficult enough to come to terms with what had happened to their dad, but hearing Pat regularly acknowledged for what their father had done caused them even more pain. My sense of pride and achievement in founding a successful youth organisation, eventually growing to events of 20,000 or more people, was now, along with many other things, also to be taken from me. However, Pat would eventually discover himself what it’s like to have your humanity become public knowledge, with all the pain and grief this brings to your family. In 2002, Pat was stood down from all ministry in the Assemblies of God because of misconduct, the result of a sexual addiction. I’m sure he was unaware how blessed he was to have a pastor like Brian Houston support him and his family in counselling and other ways. This support meant Pat could focus on getting his life and marriage back on track in order to be restored to the ministry. Sadly, even with that support, Pat’s marriage didn’t survive. Phil Pringle, the Senior Pastor of another mega-church in Sydney, willingly took Pat’s healing and rehabilitation in hand. In his new church home and with his new wife Andrea, Pat was re-instated as a preacher on Sunday 19 February 2006 and serves God with a new awareness and humility. The Christian Church—a place of love, forgiveness and restoration—proved to be so for Pat. His repentance opened doors and people came to his rescue. Why hadn't it worked like that for me? I wondered. Was my sin so unforgivable?

Comment left by Kram Namaes I love the scuba gear analogy, how bout we all throw that stuff away and let all the past mistakes stay down there!!! Good on you Pat for not letting people get the better of you.

Comment left by Concerned Rebuild your life or your empire? (edited)

Comment left by Brendan Funny, I was just looking up "the Millionaires Club" because I have hit every rock bottom there could possibly be and with only two days to go until Christmas I can't afford to see my kids. And yet I have never been as close to success and a part of that is reading positive people like Pat. He provided me with a message and I have now put in place the foundation to what will be an amazing life turnaround. But now I read this stuff about Pat. What a shame that I read of Pat's problems but he has practised what he preached. It's in the past. He looks forward. The bad stuff in my past has only strengthened my resolve but has brought me closer to God (no preacher just a plain ole' Catholic !!!). As Pat writes problems, crisis , rock bottoms are a part of life. We all carry baggage. How true Pat. I have and now on am closer to prosperity than I have been for many years. It'll be a good read when I come out the other side next year. But for all of the interesting feedback above my humble opinion is this. I am not to judge. it is not my place. But people like Pat are messengers. If they are sucessful in sending a message that helps another human being then he has served our Lord well. Pat is just like all of the people he helps. He is one man , one human who serves one God. You have helped me stay focused, positive and i am sure you will be proud of me when I meet you under better circumstances Pat. I will also be proud to shake your hand Pat. Look forward not back......it's the main message. Give to God and he will give back. Happy Christmas 2008 everyone. Go the Carols tomorrow night......Yoohoo !!

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